Did Jesus Really Need to Die?
Stephen Dempster · Tidal Church Moncton · April 28, 2024 · Did Jesus Really? series
In conversation with Dr. Stephen Dempster, this message traces atonement from Genesis through the sacrifices and the Day of Atonement to the cross. Jesus' death deals fully with our sin and shame, and invites us to live forgiven and freed.
More from Stephen Dempster · The Did Jesus Really? series
Topics: Grace, Forgiveness, Easter
Transcript
[0:01] Obviously an ancient myth. And you know, even the Jesus story, His biography is completely unoriginal. He makes outrageous claims. He claims He has the authority to forgive sins and the power to raise the dead. You can debate about whether or not He actually lived in, whether there's credible objective evidence for that. Do you, So you do think He was a real person. Most of the scholars I've talked to say He probably was. The evidence is not great, of course, but there's lots of rules about slavery in the Bible. None of them are, "Don't do it." They never even thought to say that. Read about Jesus, seem to be a really good guy that killed Him as just the nature of people. So what you have in the figure of Christ is an actual person who actually lived plus a myth.
[0:47] And in some sense, Christ is the union of those two things. The problem is I probably believe that. Do I believe it? Of course not. It was written by people in the Bronze Age who didn't know what a germ or an atom was, and Jesus healed everyone that He, then He couldn't walk. And now He touched when He can walk. I don't know what to do with that. The Jesus of the Gospels is either God in the flesh or a terrible imposter. There is no middle ground. Who do you think He was? Well, God is real. Jesus existed. He was of outlaw and has changed my outlook on life. And so in some sense, I believe it's undeniable. Well, if you're here for the first time, this is our last week of a series that we've called Did Jesus Really, and over the last few weeks we've wrestled and contended with some of the questions that you see in that bumper.
[1:37] You know, a few weeks ago we talked about did Jesus really actually heal people? We've wrestled with the question, did He really demand anything from us or was He just about love and good vibes? You know, last week we wrestled with the question of doubt and did Jesus really exist? And what about the slavery question? And this morning, I'm absolutely thrilled that we get to deal with and wrestle with the question, did Jesus really need to die? And I brought an expert in for this because I knew I needed an expert. This is Dr. Stephen Dempster. Now, Stephen Dempster and I go way back. Are they? Get you. They're already. Wow. They're excited for you. He got some fans already. For those that don't know, this, we go way back. This is not your most important accomplishment. But when I was a child, you were my Christian Service Brigade, one of my leaders there.
[2:22] We grew up, our, your kids were peers of mine. And, but more to the point. You've been a biblical scholar for decades. Mm-hmm. And you've written books, theological works. Your most recent one just came out, The Return of the Kingdom. And you've taught at Crandall locally, but you are quoted worldwide and legitimately. Dr. Stephen Dempster, I was listening to a podcast with the Bible Project. Some of you know the Bible Project and as a source work, they quoted your book, referencing the work that you've done in the Old Testament. So, did I miss anything in terms of your bio? It's, sorry. Okay. You sure? Yeah. Okay, good. So, Dr. Dempster, this question that I, this is gonna be kind of different for us, but I would love for us to wrestle with, because it comes to the core of our faith.
[3:10] Why did Jesus need to die? And maybe even a little bit more than that, when any of us, if you've grown up in church or you've seen the Easter story, you know, just a month ago, we celebrate the Easter story of Jesus dying on the cross. We just sang a song where Jesus' blood shed for us pays for our sins. And then there's this whole part of the Bible before Jesus where if you do something wrong, something has to happen. Somebody needs to die, some blood needs to be shed, or some, you know, bread of bread needs to be burned. And it just seems so odd for so many of us, why, if I punch my sister, do I need to kill a dove? Mm-hmm. That's not exactly the rule. Is that right? No, I got that wrong a bit. But what is it about our faith that requires some kind of penalty, some kind? Why can't God just say, you're, so I'm, you know, when you say, sorry, you're forgiven without any kind of penalty? What's that about?
[4:02] Yeah, that runs to the heart of the Scriptures. It runs to the heart of our society too. And people that, even in that situation, there is the recognition that some kind of wrong has to be redressed. And so whatever it is, a timeout or in that situation, but this comes to the very, very heart of the Bible. There's a sense in which, when injustice occurs and when there's a wrong that happens, that it has to be dealt with. And there's a sense, unless it's dealt with, there's something really insufficient. And this goes, as I say, right to the heart of the Bible, that with this idea of atonement, and atonement is, as a word, which means really, it's a, when you break it down, it means at-one-ment.
[4:55] And it means that there has been a rupture in a union which has been there in the beginning. And that rupture has to be repaired. And when there is a price, there's a price to be paid, depending on the offense, the gravity of the offense, the price goes up, if it's, if it's very serious. But the Bible makes it very, very clear that, at the very beginning, there is this incredible creation that God has made. And He sustains it. He's made human beings in His image. They've been called to rule the world, but they decide to go on their own. And there's a rupture that takes place.
[5:41] And as a result, they experience death. They experienced disintegration. Someone has basically decided, said that when they look at the Bible in the first three chapters, there's a sort of a disintegration of creation, a rupture which takes place. And the rest of the Bible in some ways is a means to bring that, to heal that rupture. And it's extremely, extremely serious. And we don't realize, I mean, you think of death if you actually look at those first few chapters of Genesis, and you think, well, they just simply disobeyed. But the very next generation you have one of the children killing another child. And then you have, a few generations later, the whole world which had been filled with the glory of God now is filled with violence.
[6:35] And, you know, one of the things that, you know, you read the Scriptures over the years, But one of the things that really strikes me in that whole situation of the time before the flood, where God judges the world, is the expression in Genesis 6:6, I think it is 6:5 and 6:6, God looks at the world and it's, He's grieved when He looks at this once great world, and you realize a few chapters later, He, earlier He described it as, it was very good. It was incredibly good. And now He looks at the world and it says it grieves His heart. The only other time that particular verb occurs in the Old Testament is when sons or brothers find out that their daughter has been raped.
[7:27] And God looks at His creation and He sees it in such a horrific situation that He has to do something drastic. And, because He's a holy God, He's someone without sin. He's absolutely pure. And as a result, He has to do something to uphold the justice. So we get that from like a larger scale. And so, you know, to be fair, you know, you think about the biggest sins that you can imagine, and that would be one of them, obviously murder in the start of the Scriptures. But what's the idea that there's even smaller injustices? Like, why would there need to be any kind of payment or or forgiveness for a small thing? 'Cause, like, I've not murdered anybody. And, and I don't think you have either. Hopefully.
[8:13] Well, I mean, that depends. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it would depend. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's that. Yeah. Well, remember, we're live streaming here. No, I, it's a lot of witnesses. No, no. Yeah, that's true. I once heard Billy Graham's wife talk about this, and she said once, if she'd ever thought of divorcing her husband. No, she hadn't. But she thought of murdering him, you know? Yeah. And, but, My wife's here today, and I, so, I'm sure she's thought, had some pretty bad thoughts. But let me, Let me put this back into context, though. Jesus talks, and this is the whole issue. Jesus talks about, you know, you think that you've kept God's law, because you haven't killed anyone with your hands.
[9:06] But He said, look, He said, have you ever got angry at someone and for something that they've done? And there's been no reason for that anger or no legitimate reason for that anger. And then He said, have you, well, you've never gone to bed with anyone else but your partner. Oh, no, I haven't. But have you ever thought and lusted after another person? That's, He says, that's the root of the matter. That's what God wants to do. He wants to change your heart, and that shows you what kind of God God is. I mean, He's holy. And so I can be all right externally, but am I right internally? You know, that's the huge question.
[9:51] And it, and I guess one of the things, it's, it's absolutely dangerous in some ways to be in the presence of God, and to have that kind of uncleanness, the Bible calls it uncleanness. Yeah. I would wonder too, though, for some people that maybe that isn't a concern of them, they're skeptical, they're not sure that, you know, maybe this is your story. You're not really convinced that there's this God that's like that. And yet there's something in our culture, there's something even in our day where we recognize, oh, if there's an offense, even if it's small, like something needs to happen. I know, I'm catching it now we're raising kids. And so, yeah. You know, they're eight, six, and four, and and like there's an offense that happens between them or they do something. And I'm like, oh, like, there needs to be some type of payment for that. It's a weird thing where you're like, oh, if you've, you hit your sibling, you gotta do something.
[10:41] You can't just move on. What is that? Why do we have that baked into us? Well, I think that's part of the image of God in us that we realize there's something wrong. And there's an injustice, an unfairness there. I think, I just think of, in Moncton, just, I mean, this is a different situation, but we had the recent situation where this individual confessed to murder last year. And the mother of the victim was in court, and the person got 10 years, and she just felt, this is a horrific injustice. And we see this all the time. We see this idea of unfairness and injustice.
[11:26] It has to be rectified. And, and if you magnify that up onto a relationship with the eternal God who gives us life every second, then there's incredible injustice. If we do not acknowledge that, or if we just simply disregard that, because we're, we're totally ignoring the one who's giving us life every second. And I think the bigger ones, you know, we can kind of contend with it. It makes sense, like the injustice around like, the murder of somebody. But, you know, I was on the phone with a telecom company this last week, and I felt like there was some injustice. And so, it was Bell, and you've been there, like, so this is small scale.
[12:13] This is very different than murder. Let's just be clear. But like, you've been there and you feel like there's just, like, somebody's gotta pay for something because shoot, there was like injustice done. My wife just flew and flew with an airline that I won't name. And, like, you know, they nicked and dimed her on her carry-on bag, and just like, oh, like, there's injustice. Like, there should be something that, even at that small scale, it feels like when you're wronged, and maybe this is just me, and this is just me doing a little confession here in the room. Thank you for that. But when somebody wrongs you, yeah. You want somebody to pay the price for that, right? I feel like when somebody wrongs your kids, you want somebody to pay something for it. Mm-hmm. I don't know. Is that fair? Oh, Yeah. Yeah. And I think one of the things when you, when you see the development of the Bible, the Jews, the Israelites had this, well, let me put it this way.
[13:03] God was concerned to address this question of atonement, the rupture, which had taken place. And so you get the whole story of the Bible in some ways is a book about addressing that issue. And so He calls out Abraham, and He calls him out, Abraham and Sarah, and they're going to bless the world through a descendant. Somehow that descendant is going to bring justice and fairness to the world. And so you get this, and so as the story goes on, the family grows, they go down into Egypt, they're treated very poorly, and yet God liberates them from there and brings them to Mount Sinai. And there they are with this holy God.
[13:49] And you see it at Mount Sinai, the fire comes down on the mount and no one can go near. And yet what happens is a covenant is made with them. And the interesting thing about that covenant is God brings, can bring them close. They're afraid. They're extremely afraid of a holy God. But God brings them close through the shedding of the blood. The blood is spattered, as it were, over the people. And then 70 of the elders are able to go up onto the mountain, which is consumed with fire, and they are able to eat and drink, and to have communion with God up there. And so that, in a sense, is this idea of atonement, something very valuable. The blood of the animal is shed and it's spattered upon them.
[14:39] And that functions as a cleansing detergent in a way to allow them to go up on the mountain and the rest of the Bible. Of course, God then comes down and dwells with the Israelites. He's in a tabernacle house with them. But if He's going to live with them, there has to be some kind of change. Okay? Either the people are gonna have to change or God's going to have to change. And what God does is He introduces a sacrificial system. And that sacrificial system makes the people aware of the gravity of their sins. So that when I commit a sin, I have to place my hand on this animal. And that animal is, I'm identifying with that animal, and that animal is killed and the blood is taken. Wait, can I just ask, 'cause this is new for me, so if I'm the one that sins, I have to place my hand on. Yes.
[15:32] Yes. That's fascinating. Yes. Yes. So I'm identifying with it. And so I see right before me the animal dying, and I think I've just died. And in a way you think of the baptism here. What has happened is someone has been plunged under the water, they've died and to a new, to an old life, and are rising to a new life. So you get this idea very much. And then the Jews have this, and it's the most holy day in the Jewish calendar. It's called the Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur. And it's the 10th day of the seventh month. And what happens on that day is all of the sins of the community, which haven't been confessed or whatever, they're dealt with.
[16:20] And there's this sense in which there's a sense in which this is the only time the high priest, who represents all the people, is able to actually go into the holiest place in the sanctuary, the only time, one day a year. So he has intimate access, and what he does is there's two goats. And what he does is there is one animal is killed, the blood is taken from that animal, and it's spattered on the innermost sanctuary of the tabernacle. And then the other, the priest comes out. And then what he does is he places his hand on the other goat, and he confesses on the other goat all the sins, all the iniquities, all the transgressions of the people.
[17:09] And what happens is that goat is then removed, it's taken out and taken out into the wilderness, and it graphically shows that what has happened is that all the sins of the people have been removed for another year. Because in a sense, and the people have this sense, you know, we're free. We have this sense that we've, our lives have been atoned for, you know, all the sins even that we weren't aware of or dealt with. But it's, and so this is the holiest day in the Jewish calendar. It's the Day of Atonement. And it's, you know, it's, the word atonement means either to wipe away, which is what the sins of have, or to pay a ransom for.
[17:57] And so it's a very costly ransom. So we've got a couple goats here. No, no, no, I'm just kidding. No. But this, 'cause we don't do this anymore. But before we move on from the idea of the sacrifices, because this is the story of our faith, like in lots of ways, if you grew up in church and you did a, like, Bible reading in a year plan, you know, you come through these sections and you're like, what is happening? Why does God require that? Why couldn't it have just been me giving like some money or like, burn a candle or sing a song? Why does it have to be something so graphic? Yeah. Well, I think it, there's a passage in Leviticus which indicates why, and it's somehow the life of the animal is in the blood. The blood is a life is required. And so that blood has to be shed.
[18:43] And you read about this in the New Testament as well, that it shows you the gravity of the nature of the problem. That something so valuable has to be shed like the life source, you know, has to be shed. And so something has to die. So it's that way. But There's still a scale, right? Like yes. Like if in the Old Testament, like, if I punched my sister, what would I have to do? What would be the payment for that? Yeah. Well, it would be probably there's a sin offering. And it would be, you'd probably, depending on depending on your situation, whether you had wealth or whether you didn't, right? You would have to make a sacrifice. And one of the, if you're poor, you would use a dove or a pigeon, you know? Oh, so that was a legit, yeah, I was just kind of shooting in the dark there.
[19:30] But then there's the scale, right? So if it's a smaller sin, what happens? And then the larger sins are more intense and like it's a bigger offering, or how does That work? Yeah, it is. Well, I mean, with the Day of Atonement, it makes it very clear. And that, and the second thing is that it's actually insufficient. And this is one of the issues. It has to be done every year. And secondly, there's capital crimes that it doesn't cover. So in many ways, it doesn't cover some of the capital crimes like adultery and murder and things like that. So there's a sense in which it's insufficient. And so what happens then is there is this projection in the future of a great day of atonement, which will cover everything, you know?
[20:25] And so and so this is really what happens in the New Testament. Before we go there, I would love just to wrestle with the idea that there's something that maybe we would long for with atonement. That what I mean by that is like, in our day and age, it seems like we can have sin and shame and, and outside of, like, our faith, you know, in the world, you can carry that and not really know what to do with it. You know, like, there's all sorts of examples. You know, people, I know people who carry the weight of, like, I've done something wrong and I don't know how to let it go. And I remember, you know, doing some, even some research and reading on this couple years ago, and there's so many, like, YouTube videos, how do you forgive yourself? Like, how do you move on from the wrong things that you've done? Because if we got together and had coffee and you actually shared the things that you've not shared with anybody else, like, there are skeletons in all of our closets.
[21:16] There's skeletons in your closet that are embarrassing. And so to wrestle with, like, okay, what do you do with the fact that I don't live up to my own standard? Like, I can't live up to the commitments that I want to make in my life and the person that I want to be. And so, in light of that, what do I do with that? Where do I stand with myself? Where do I stand with? If there's a God, how do I stand with that person? And there's something about atonement that tells you the restitution has been done. Like, you can actually know that your shame and your pain has been paid for, that. You don't have to live with that anymore. Yeah. That seems kind of powerful and kind of missing from so many people's lives. Would that fair? Yeah. I mean, it's an incredible freedom to realize that. I mean, you see it, I think, in the early church, where you have this sense of incredible joy as a result of what's happened with Christ, as the ultimate sacrifice, where people realize that I'm free.
[22:14] I am, I have this new identity. I have this new life. I'm washed. I remember watching that musical long time ago. I think it was Godspell, where the people came back and they had the, after they were baptized, "I'm washed, I'm washed, I'm clean." And of course, the Bible makes it very, very clear that someday we're all gonna stand before a holy God. And Paul, St. Paul says, the whole world will become guilty before God. But the sense that I am washed, that final, I've experienced my final judgment right now in the cross, Christ has dealt with my, the issue of sin by atoning for my sins.
[23:04] I mean, it's so powerful that you'd have this sense of a freedom. And I mean, I, you know, one of the, I've had one of my students. I remember one of my students years ago was in a car accident and that he was driving and his fiancée was killed. And, he waited until the day of the wedding and he killed himself. And I would've just wanted to say to him, in many ways, you're 2,000 years too late. You know? But there is the sense in which he was carrying that guilt.
[23:53] And there's so much of that, and of course, that sense of incredible guilt will be exacerbated so much in the day of the final judgment. But you have this idea in the Gospels that the great Day of Atonement has happened in Jesus. Like, when you think about that blood and you think, you've just we've just celebrated Passover. And you think of Jesus taking the cup and telling His disciples, as He was, as He was about to drink it, "This is My blood, which is poured out for the forgiveness of sins." And so all those sort of types and shadows of the blood, of animals being poured out for the forgiveness of sins, sort of is heightened to the nth degree with Jesus Christ, the Son of God, pouring out His life so that we can live forgiven.
[24:51] That the justice has been paid, the, the penalty has been paid for me. And as someone has said, the, the life I should have lived was lived by the pure and spotless Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, but the death I should have died was die. He was the one who died it for me. And that is the incredible sweet exchange that I can live. Because He died. He lived and He died. And yeah, so there is this incredible, freedom, I think, that comes with that sense that we're forgiven, you know? And It really does sometimes take that sitting with our own challenges, issues, the things that we are holding onto to realize the depth of what we need forgiveness for.
[25:43] Like, it isn't intuitive all the time, but you know, the minute you start wrestling and talking, obviously this awful story of your, of your student, that being the heaviest of weights to carry and recognizing that there had to be some kind of price that was paid. You know, we do carry the little, the smaller versions of that around when we recognize how we've wronged somebody, how we've, you know, fallen short, how we've, you know, messed up and have caused hurt and heartache in the lives of the people around us. And yet to know that we don't have to have the guilt and the shame, and to carry that for the rest of our lives, that it's actually been dealt with, is profound and is fascinating. But, you know, I think there's still a sense that for some people, and especially if you're skeptical, that, like, what do you do with all of this story?
[26:29] If you're on the fringe of faith, you know, you're not fully convinced that that there really is this God, or that there really is this Jesus. Like, what do you say to, and you've taught, I'm sure you know, skeptical people in your classes when you're trying to unpack all of this idea that there's forgiveness for your sins. Like, what does that mean to somebody that isn't quite convinced yet? How do you convince a skeptic? Yeah. Well, you know, I was listening to someone speak the other day, and he said this, if there is no final judgment for the world, then there is no hope. And when you think about that, when you think about all of the incredible injustices in the world that take place, like, you think of what's happening in Sudan.
[27:18] Three years ago I was in Khartoum and it was bustling and everything. Now it's basically an ashy because of the civil war that's taken place. You think of what's happening in Ukraine, you think of what's happening in, we have a daughter in Burkina Faso. And the army killed two or 300 people a few months ago that's just being you know, brought out and exposed. And of course, we think of what's happened with Hamas and what's, what's happening in Gaza and all of these things. And if there is no final judgment, then there is no hope for the world. There's no meaning of history. But, and Can I just say, 'cause it's such an interesting thing. 'cause usually we hear in the reverse, there's so much evil in the world, How can there be a real good God that exists?
[28:07] Yeah. And that flips it on its head a little bit because there's so much evil, how could you not believe in a God that will bring justice? Yeah. And bring in a final judgment. Yeah. The payment. Yeah. But the question there, and when you read passages like the Sermon on the Mount and other passages about, is if there is going to be judgment of the world, what is, what hope is there for me? You know, what hope is there for me? And I really do think that, when you look at the, when you look at the Gospels and you see that, and you see the center of the Gospels, really, you have these four books, which are right at the center of the Bible, the beginning of the New Testament, four rehearsals of the life of Jesus. And a third to a half of those books are dealing with the final week of His life that He, and He's in many ways afraid of going through with this.
[29:02] You sense the fear, "Take this cup," He says to His Father, but nevertheless, "Your will, not mine, be done." And He goes through with it, and it's one of the most excruciating ways to die that there is. And He goes through with it, and at the end He says, "It's finished." My mission is over. And so you get this sense that, God is resolving this issue in history, and He's giving people an opportunity to experience forgiveness, complete forgiveness, and to live the life that He wants to live, wants them to live by giving His Spirit so that they can go out into the world and make a difference. And I think that, this, this shows you that God cares, but one of the great truths you can get from this is that final judgment for the Christian, for the believer, the one who trusts in Jesus has already happened, has already happened, but there is to be a final judgment where all these things will be worked out in the very end.
[30:10] And I think that this is very, very important to see that God has brought about atonement. And someday, the fact that this has happened, it shows you that this is kind of a preview of the end. That there will be a full bringing together of that which has been torn apart in the new heavens and the new earth, where we see, God ruling through His people again. Okay. So there's lots, like, this is obviously lots. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, we've talked a bit about the idea of sacrifices and that God uses us as a measure, the idea that we get to Jesus, and that this is the atonement for us and for our, to bring us out of our own sin.
[30:56] Like what do we do with this as we wrestle with these kinds of thoughts? What do we do as those that have already become Christians? And we kind of knew this already. What do we, what are our, how as we understand this more? What should our response be, I guess is maybe my question? Yeah. I, well, one of the responses if you aren't a believer is that Christ died for you. Christ, God, is giving you this free atonement. And what He wants you to do is respond to it. The Lord delays the second coming. Peter says, because He doesn't wish anyone to perish, but that all should experience forgiveness and healing. So that's a, and, and to experience that new freedom that Christ would give in your own life right now, so that you can walk with your head held high because you know that God has dealt with your issue, your sin.
[31:50] But the second thing is this, is that, if you look at Leviticus chapters 1 to 16 talks about atonement, chapter 17 to 27 talks about, now that that's happened, live atoned lives. And I think that that's what happens in the New Testament. These people that have been, their sins have been atoned, then sacrifice themselves for each other, and they make a difference in the world. And if I can just conclude with this story, because it is a very, very powerful story, but it's from the Second World War. It's what happened in Auschwitz, and everyone knows about Auschwitz, the death camp. And there was an escape from Auschwitz.
[32:35] And as a result of that escape, the Nazis basically came to the prisoners and said, 10 people are gonna have to die. And so they selected them randomly. And one of those individuals said, "Please, not me. I have a family at home, young children." And, and so one person decided that they would volunteer to take his place, and miraculously the guard or the captain in charge said, "Okay, you can do it." But some of his friends tried to, tried to dissuade him, and they said, they all came together, and they said, "It's no use.
[33:21] All this man wants to talk about is Jesus." Well, that's, that's living atoned for life. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think for all of us, you know, the idea that we carry heavy weights, we carry heavy burdens, is this human universal and, and our hope that when we gather in this kind of place that we get to sing to this God, that we talk about whether or not you're new or you've been here for decades, that, that we believe deeply that this is a God that's listening to our prayers. And so our hope is that as we wrestle and think about and deal with some of the things that, you know, maybe are stumbling blocks for us in our faith journey, that for all of us, that we could come to a point of recognizing our need in our hope that comes in the person of Jesus.
[34:16] And that ultimately, even as we, you know, we wrestle for a few weeks here on a couple of things, that ultimately it comes down to this Jesus that has actually atoned for our sins. Mm. And that we wish, and we would hope that everyone here, and everyone listening, and everyone online, and everyone that ever downloads this podcast, that you would contend with the fact that Jesus is paying for your sin and shame, and that you would be willing to surrender and look to Him. And yeah, it's complicated. And yeah, there's a lot to it. And, you know, I think you'd love to chat with people, and there's lots more about what went on in the Old Testament, and why was God doing all of this? And those are worthwhile questions. You should deal and wrestle with them. There are answers and there's places you can go. But ultimately, the question that we all need to deal and wrestle with is who is this Jesus character?
[35:08] Is He really my Savior? And are we really ready to surrender to Him? And so I'd love to just pray for us and pray for you and, wherever you're at in your journey, that Jesus would be the kind of person that you could fix your eyes on, and that you could see Him clearly. Heavenly Father, we are grateful that we can gather in this kind of way. And, you know, we sing these songs believing them to be true for so many of us. But I recognize that in a room this size, there's lots of people that that's not the case. And so I just pray that as we think about these things, as we talk about these things, as we wrestle with these different scriptures and jump to all these wild places in Your Word, that for some of us, it's just so confusing sometimes. And yet the story that it brings us to is our own need, and our own need for You.
[35:56] And so I'd wonder, maybe even in this moment as we're praying, if there's a few people just in your heart of hearts, as you recognize the weights that you've been carrying and you've been bringing in, and they're heavy weights, you know, they might not be an accident. Maybe it is an accident. Maybe it's some way that you've wronged somebody. Maybe it's some sin that you've done. Maybe it's something that you just recognize, oh, I can't even live up to my own expectations of myself. And for you to recognize that in this moment, if you had in this moment, just fix your eyes on Jesus and let Him atone for your sin. Yeah. That it can be paid for. Mm. And there's still so much to go, and there's still so much to sort of, for sure, I get that. But in this moment, you can unhook yourself from that burden and hand it over to Him, knowing that He has paid for it.
[36:47] And so maybe just in these moments, Father, as we look to You, we recognize that we need Your atoning sacrifice. We can't pay the price on our own. And so we just ask that You would forgive us of our sins, that You would look on us as righteous, that You would look on us and draw us to Yourself and give us our next steps, that we could be new people because of You. God, I pray for that. And I think there's a few people in this room that might be praying that too. And so we ask that You would give us clarity to know what to do with that, who to talk to, where to go, and to recognize that Your sacrifice has changed everything for us.
[37:32] And we are grateful for that. And we pray all these things in Jesus' name. Amen.